The DVD of SEX CITY
has been banned for a second time. Despite being censored the
Classification Board still awarded it an RC.
******
Internet filtering was the hot topic during Senate
Estimates in Canberra. The Labor Party grilled Telstra, and the Religious
Right Family First Party went after the Australian Communications and
Media Authority.
******
You have probably been reading about the problems in remote Aboriginal
communities. Well guess what, porn is to blame! Hey, that means a quick
easy fix. Just ban it!
Judy Atkinson goes as far as to claim that it is:
".....even more lethal than
alcohol"
To top it off she even wheels out the old snuff movie myth.
Ban
porn in remote communities, urges academic. The Age 24.05.06
Judy Atkinson, director of the College of
Indigenous Australian Peoples at Southern Cross University in NSW, said
pornography was fuelling the problem of sexual assault in remote
communities.
"People have got lots of DVD
machines. Blue movies are brought into the community, they have become a
commodity . . . and are even more lethal than alcohol," she said.
Dr Atkinson said research for a new study
about indigenous violence suggests that hard porn including "snuff
movies" (films depicting people being killed) was now being
accessed by children. She said she interviewed a six-year-old Aboriginal
boy who had been traumatised by a movie he watched with his uncle
showing a woman being killed during sexual intercourse.
******
Philip Ruddock finally got around to answering
John Murphy's question regarding SBS and the BLOODY MARY episode of
SOUTH PARK.
******
As previously mentioned the control of OFLC policy
is be moved to the Attorney-General’s Department. During Senate
Estimates Senator Joseph Ludwig attempted to find out how this would
work.
Speakers are:
Joseph Ludwig - Labor Party
Chris Ellison - Liberal Party
Robert Cornall, Secretary of the Attorney-General’s Department
Iain Anderson, First Assistant Secretary, Legal Services and Native
Title Division
Parliament
of Australia
LEGAL AND CONSTITUTIONAL LEGISLATION COMMITTEE: Discussion
Date: 24 May, 2006
Committee name: LEGAL AND CONSTITUTIONAL LEGISLATION COMMITTEE
Department: ATTORNEY-GENERAL'S PORTFOLIO
Page: 4
Proof: Yes
Database: Estimates Comm.
Source: Senate
Senator LUDWIG—The Australian Financial
Review, Tuesday, 24 January 2006, under the heading ‘Ruddock threat to
grab state powers’ states:
Federal Attorney-General Philip Ruddock has
warned state governments that they should agree to more uniform national
laws or face further unilateral action by the commonwealth to make state
laws redundant.
Following the passage of the Howard
government’s workplace relations changes ...
And states further:
‘Over time, we might find as the
commonwealth powers—particularly corporations power—[are] tested that
there might be a wider range in which the commonwealth is able to move’,
Mr Ruddock said.
‘In the end you don’t necessarily
achieve the rational outcome—
He seems to have gone into economics—
by jawboning. Obviously, I will be alive to
whatever powers the commonwealth has if it will help focus people’s
attention on effective reform.’
The article goes on, but I am sure you have
read it. Have you given advice or has Mr Ruddock sought advice about the
implications of the Workchoices legislation for the corporations power in
those areas that I have referred to: personal property securities,
defamation and other matters, including partnership laws and conveyancing?
If a wider interpretation is given to the Constitution, particularly
relating to corporations, will that be used or will that become available
to be used?
Talk Senator Ellison—That is a question of
policy to the extent that Senator Ludwig has asked if a court decision
goes one way or another what will the government do.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—No, I asked have you
got advice about that.
Talk Senator Ellison—Certainly the
department gives advice to the Attorney-General. No doubt it has given
advice on occasions about the corporations power and other constitutional
aspects for a whole range of matters. But, I think if you persist with the
questioning of the secretary, it really is aimed at getting an answer of,
‘We did advise on the subject and that is the possible outcome of the
High Court’s decision and the effect on the corporations power.’ I do
not think it is appropriate that officials go to that extent with the
advice because that is getting down into the subject matter of the advice.
I think that it is fair to say that any decision as to what the government
would do post the High Court decision would be based on the decision. You
do not know what the decision will bring up. In the reason for judgment,
there could be all sorts of things that we have to address. So I really do
not think we can take it much further than that. There is a report of the
Attorney’s comments. I will take it on notice, provide it to the
Attorney and see if the Attorney wants to or can add anything to that. I
will take that one on notice but I do not think we can pursue this much
further because it really is starting to drill into the substance.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—As I said right at the
beginning, I am not seeking the advice. I have asked for it before and I
know you will not give it to me so I am not going to ask for that. But I
did and can ask for whether you have provided advice on that issue. I
think that is permissible; it is certainly within the range of the advice
that you can provide to say whether you have or you have not. It is
entirely reasonable to ask, on a particular prospect or outcome of a case,
if it goes one way of the other, whether the Attorney-General has asked
for advice. The question is specific. It does not go too broadly. It is
narrowcast.
Talk Mr Cornall—I am not sure that that is
my understanding of that. The mere fact that the Attorney or the minister
might have asked for advice on something and we had given in itself might
be quite sensitive information in terms of development of policy or
matters before cabinet or something of that nature. So I am not entirely
sure that assertion is a correct statement of the position.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—It was worth a try,
though.
Talk Senator Ellison—I can see what
Senator Ludwig is saying. Normally, we would say to the question of did
the department give advice on this: ‘Yes, they did, but the subject
matter or substance we cannot talk about.’ But this is talking about
something which may or may not happen in the future. I think the secretary
is quite right to indicate that that could be more sensitive. It could
indicate where the government is going or might go with its policy
options. That is the cause for concern there, and that is the reason we
believe that answering that could set a lot of hares running, as we know
they do.
Talk CHAIR—I think that might be Senator
Ludwig’s plan, Minister.
Talk Senator Ellison—Exactly.
Talk CHAIR—Far be it for me to engage in
conjecture.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—So I can conclude yes
and that you are not going to tell me. That will set it. And no response
was received—there is my answer.
Talk Senator Ellison—I do not think you
should take that as acquiescence.
Talk CHAIR—I believe the minister said
that there was nothing further to say.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—Is the censorship
issue now in 1.2 or 1.3? It has been brought back into the department.
Talk Mr Cornall—It is in Mr Anderson’s
division.
Talk Mr Anderson—It is in 1.2 and it has
been previously as well, because the department has had a joint policy
role in classification for some years.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—So I should ask it
here. The broader question is: what is happening there? What is happening
to the independence of the section? Has that now been drawn into the
Attorney-General’s web?
Talk Mr Cornall—The independence of the
classification board and the Classification Review Board will not be
affected all. They will remain independent bodies with an independent
secretariat and they will perform their tasks independently. The policy,
administrative and support roles will be undertaken by departmental
officers.
Talk Mr Anderson—There has also been no
change to the fact that it is a cooperative scheme with states and
territories. Any policy changes to classification have to be agreed with
all jurisdictions.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—Where will the policy
advice come from if there is not a separate statutory office with its own
staff? Where will the policy direction and the strategic work come from
that is usually undertaken by a separate statutory body or a separate
section—those types of things where you have the confidence of your
staff to provide research and to go and seek direction under your
leadership?
Talk Mr Anderson—I commented that it is a
cooperative scheme. In each of the state and territory jurisdictions the
policy advice is provided from a department of the state or territory, and
that is going to be the case for the Commonwealth as well. The Australian
government will have its source of policy advice within the
Attorney-General’s Department.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—But that source of
policy advice, how will it then be provided? Will it be provided through
the department?
Talk Mr Anderson—The classification board
and review board themselves have never actually had a role in the
formulation of policy. That has always been a matter for governments and
that will remain a matter for governments. So, while the staff of OFLC who
have previously had an involvement in the development of policy and the
carrying out of research will now be Attorney-General’s Department
officers, there is no actual difference in how the policy work, in itself,
will be carried out and the advice given to government.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—We have had a separate
Office of Film and Literature Classification. Which functions, then, will
be drawn back into the department?
Talk Mr Anderson—From 1 July 2006 the
policy function will be entirely within the department.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—All right, just stop
there. We are moving the policy department, which was in the Office of
Film and Literature Classification—I am just trying to understand your
earlier comments—to the department. When it sat in the office, whose
policy did it reflect? It seems to be that you then say that it reflects
the government’s policy. But if the Office of Film and Literature
Classification is an office that has a policy unit, and that policy unit
is being shifted back into the department, does it not then become the
department’s policy?
Talk Mr Anderson—Since 2002 the department
and the Office of Film and Literature Classification have actually shared
policy responsibility for classification, so we have worked together on
all policy matters in any event, and jointly settled advice to government.
But, yes, that policy function will now be entirely within the department.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—So you no longer have
to work jointly with them?
Talk Mr Anderson—It is going to be very
important to—
Talk Senator LUDWIG—Perhaps you could
answer that question—
Talk Mr Anderson—I was going to say,
Senator, not in the same way. We will still need to actually make sure
that policy is appropriately informed by consideration of operational
classification matters.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—Yes, so you will not
be working jointly with them to develop policy. You will develop policy
within the policy section of the A-G’s department and then you will
consult with the board, will you?
Talk Mr Anderson—Yes, there will certainly
be consultation—and with industry and others, as is commonly the case.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—Then, effectively,
there will be a classification board and a review board without a policy
section?
Talk Mr Anderson—That is correct. The
office itself will cease to exist as an FMA agency in the longer-term.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—Won’t those two
bodies then lose an important source of policy formulation to inform
themselves on these issues?
Talk Mr Anderson—They do not actually
formulate policy for themselves. They apply the classification code in
making classification decisions. The policy formulation is quite separate
to the actual Classification Board, which has statutory appointees, and
the Classification Review Board, which similarly has statutory appointees.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—What did the policy
section do in the office of film and literature review board anyway?
Talk Mr Anderson—They developed policy
considerations for government—not for the boards, because the boards do
not deal with policy.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—Was it independent of
government in that process?
Talk Mr Anderson—It was an agency under
the FMA Act and it worked jointly with the department on policy since
2002.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—It is not just for the
government—it is also for the council of ministers too, isn’t it?
Talk Mr Anderson—Policy is developed
across the jurisdictions that were part of the cooperative scheme. There
is a SCAG censorship meeting that occurs regularly and there are meetings
of classification officials.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—The short answer is
yes.
Talk Mr Anderson—Those meetings will
continue.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—But the policy will
not be developed in the office as a separate and distinct entity from the
government; it will be now developed within the government. Perhaps I do
not see your point. Doesn’t it move from an independent area of policy
advice, which provided policy advice to the council of ministers, to a
government department as an internal policy advice mechanism?
Talk Mr Anderson—OFLC was a government
agency that operated as part of government. Yes, it had discussions with
state and territory policy areas. We have had similar discussions, and
those discussions will continue.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—So won’t we lose
that as a separate source of policy advice?
Talk Mr Anderson—The function of OFLC was
to develop policy for the Australian government.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—That is right, so that
will not be in that area. Where will it be?
Talk Mr Anderson—It will be within the
department, so there is no change in the sense that there is still within
the Australian government a source of policy advice on classification that
will work with other jurisdictions on classification policy.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—But it will not be
separate from the department.
Talk Mr Anderson—It will not be separate
from the department—that is correct.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—You do not think it
will diminish the process of making censorship policy?
Talk Mr Anderson—I do not believe so.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—So the day-to-day
contact will be within the policy section of AGs, and it will be reporting
to who?
Talk Mr Anderson—It will be within my
division.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—So it will be
reporting to you within your division. The policy division which exists
now, does it report to you?
Talk Mr Anderson—Yes, it does.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—In what way?
Talk Mr Anderson—The Attorney-General’s
shared policy role is within my division currently; the OFLC policy people
do not report to me—just to make that clear.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—No.
Talk Mr Anderson—We jointly agree policy
if any proposal is being developed, considered or put up to government.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—We might have
exhausted that policy. The change from the director of the Classification
Board to where they are now part of the secretariat, their support, will
come from who? You?
Talk Mr Anderson—We are still working
through the exact detail, but the proposal is that the policy area come to
the department from 1 July 2006. All the public service staff of the OFLC
will become staff of the Attorney-General’s Department from 1 July 2006,
but the other functions will come under the control of the department by 1
July 2007. The exact details of how the secretariat is going to work to
support the boards is something that we are still progressing with the
executive team of the OFLC.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—So is there an outline
of how it is going to be divided up? Issues like secretariat, support,
research, speech writing functions—all those sorts of matters—where
will they now reside?
Talk Mr Anderson—That is exactly the sort
of detail we are currently progressing with the executive management of
OFLC.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—Where you do you think
they are going to reside? Is there a view that the AG has of where they
should reside?
Talk Mr Cornall—When you say reside, do
you mean physically where they are based or whether they are in the
department or with the Classification Board?
Talk Senator LUDWIG—All right, I will be
specific: in terms of reside I mean who will employ them? Will they be
employed directly by and responsible to Mr Anderson as direct line
employees, who will then have to go through the OFLC, the board or Mr
Anderson for work? In other words: do you have someone available to do
this? Yes or no. Mr Anderson will have to oversee those staff, and so it
changes the nature of employment. No longer does the OFLC have a
secretariat, research or speech writers who they can direct and control.
Mr Anderson will be in control of those employees and can say, ‘These
resources will be available.’ ‘These resources will not be available
to you.’ ‘Yes, we can help you with that.’ ‘No, we can’t.’ It
changes the relationship significantly in my mind. I do not know whether
you share that but I am curious to find out.
Talk Mr Cornall—It does. At the present
time, we have an independent FMA Act agency with its own budget, its own
management structure, its own head and its own responsibilities and
accountability. That will change. The staff will become public servants.
They will report. They will become members of the department. Outside of
that will basically be the Classification Board and the Classification
Review Board. Yes, that is a change. We are presently working through the
allocation of staff to particular responsibilities, but they will be
public servants in the department.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—When you look at the
independence and the ability to provide direction to their staff, for
example, research direction, it appears that all of that will be lost.
Talk Mr Cornall—The point is that the
Classification Review Board and the Classification Board really do not
need staff. They perform a classification function. They make decisions on
material submitted to them for classification. In terms of the
administration function, that will become a departmental function. As Mr
Anderson has pointed out, we have shared the policy advice role with the
OFLC officers for several years now and that will simply become a
departmental function.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—Now there are two
sources of policy advice; post 1 July there will be one. The public role
of the director is to explain classification decisions to the community.
Who will support that function? That will have to be directed to Mr
Anderson for secretarial support, speech writing, policy direction and all
of those matters. That function is significantly altered as well.
Talk Mr Anderson—The director will still
actually need to be able to explain to the public the rationale behind
particular classification decisions as he is the convenor for the review
board. They will clearly need a range of support from the secretariat. I
cannot say much more other than we are working through exactly what
support they are going to require. It is not intended to in any way
impinge upon the effectiveness of the Classification Board or the
Classification Review Board in making decisions and in providing
appropriate public explanation of those decisions.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—The latter you have
not adequately explained. The director will need support through direct
staff to provide that public face to explain things to the community. If
secretariat support resides in the department under your control, then it
is a significant difference from what currently exists where he can, or
she can in future, exercise their ability to task their employees as a
separate body. If you cannot see the difference, I think everybody else
can.
Talk Mr Anderson—The mere fact that the
staff are employed by the department does not actually preclude the
director from being able to direct or control them. That is a question
that we are working through currently with the executive team of OFLC in
terms of what the needs of the boards actually are.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—But they will not be
able to employ the staff directly or decide on the skill sets that they
require. They will be all decisions that you will make.
Talk Mr Anderson—There is scope for
delegations of powers to the director. That is a matter that we are still
considering. I cannot actually say anything further than that.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—When will you finalise
that consideration?
Talk Mr Anderson—We are working jointly
with OFLC. The timetable is that those functions do not have to be under
the control of the department until 1 July 2007. It might happen sooner
than that; it depends. We do not have to do that immediately. We are
working carefully through it with OFLC.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—Was there any public
consultation or consultation with the OFLC about the changes before they
were announced?
Talk Mr Anderson—No, there was not.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—Did they read it in
the paper?
Talk Mr Anderson—Immediately following the
decision there was contact with the director and very shortly after that,
Mr Govey, deputy secretary of the department, did attend the OFLC and
informed the staff. It has been an ongoing process.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—Forgive me for not
quite understanding this. If it is a usual change where you are
rearranging the department or absorbing a section or an independent body
into the A-G, I would have thought that there would at least be a
consultative process, perhaps even some public consultation. But, rather,
it has been done in a high-handed way: ‘You’re no longer going to have
an independent body. You are going to be absorbed into the department. We’ll
work it out later because the decision has been made.’ It seems to me
that this has not been done in the way you have operated in the past. It
seems to be a significant break from that process, unless you tell me that
I am mistaken and that this is how you do it.
Talk Mr Cornall—We have not had a lot of
occasion for this to occur in the past. The occasion that comes to mind is
when Emergency Management Australia was moved to this department from the
Department of Defence. That was done as part of the Administrative
Arrangements Order. I do not believe there was any consultation before
that was announced, when the AAOs came out after the 2001 election.
Similarly, after the last election, there
were a number of changes in the AAOs with the result that, for example, I
think the Oceans Office was absorbed back into the Department of the
Environment and Heritage—I might be wrong about the detail. I think
there were a couple of other small independent offices that were moved
back into departments. So I think there are precedents for it, which the
government has implemented in recent years.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—Are you saying it is
par for the course?
Talk Mr Cornall—No. I am saying it has
happened in the past. It is not an unusual thing to occur if the
government makes a decision to restructure some of the administrative
arrangements. It is also in the context of the Uhrig review, where the
government is looking to reduce the number of small bodies that it has and
to move them back where it can to departments for more effective
administration.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—So you do not think it
was administered effectively?
Talk Mr Cornall—I am just commenting that
it is in the context of the Uhrig review, which has looked at reducing the
number of small agencies and moving them back where possible to
departments.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—What I am asking,
then, is what decision was made—in other words, what motivated the
decision to move it back? Was it simply motivated by trying to rationalise
your resources or trying to save money? And, in those cases, why wouldn’t
you have consulted first or at least advised them that that was the course
you were going to take? Otherwise I am left with it being just
vindictiveness.
Talk Senator Ellison—No, it was not. It
was part of the Uhrig review, as the secretary said. The process is
another matter, but the decision flowed from the Uhrig review. It was not
that the government had initially set out to put this in place. There was
a review, broad ranging. As the secretary said, that Uhrig review was
looking to minimise the number of small agencies that had grown up over
time. I think that that is a very worthwhile exercise.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—Yes, but the Uhrig
review recommended consultation. I do not know how you rely on that. You
did not consult; you just did it.
Talk Senator Ellison—The process, as I
said, is another issue. You said that the reason for it was
vindictiveness. The reason for it came from Uhrig.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—You said it was the
Uhrig review.
Talk Senator Ellison—We do not have to
take everything on board Uhrig says, in any event.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—It recommended
consultation and you did not.
Talk Senator Ellison—I do not see it is a
problem at all.
Talk CHAIR—I am not sure we are advancing
the position at this point, Senator Ludwig.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—Thank you, Chair.
Given that it has the potential to affect the national classification
scheme, were the states consulted?
Talk Mr Anderson—We do not actually
believe that it does affect the national classification scheme. It is
simply a question of the administration of the Commonwealth agency. In
terms of the requirements to consult with the states and territories,
matters that go to the classification scheme—changes in policy, changes
to the guidelines and things like that—are matters that are raised with
states and territories and will continue to be raised with states and
territories.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—So will you check back
now that you have made the decision to see whether or not the states are
happy with the outcome or have you done that yet?
Talk Mr Anderson—There has been discussion
at SCAG between ministers.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—What are the states’
views about these changes? Have they made a comment about whether they are
happy with the changes, happy with the outcome?
Talk Mr Anderson—My understanding is that
they accept that it is mirroring the situation with their own arrangements
for policy within their own jurisdictions where they each have policy
within a department.
Talk Senator LUDWIG—Will you go back and
talk to them about the secretariat arrangements when you finalise those to
obtain their view?
Talk Mr Anderson—Only if it is a matter
which goes to the classification scheme, rather than simply a matter about
the internal administration of the Commonwealth part of it.
Talk Senator Ellison—Madam Chair, can I
inquire as to whether we have reached any finality yet in relation to any
of the two outputs we are looking at: 1.1 and 1.2?
Talk Senator LUDWIG—We have nearly reached
the finality of 1.2.
[10.45 am]
***
The following day Senator Linda Kirk continued the questioning,
this time with Des Clark from the OFLC.
Speakers are:
Linda Kirk - Labor Party
Chris Ellison - Liberal Party
Des Clark - Director of the OFLC
Parliament
of Australia
LEGAL
AND CONSTITUTIONAL LEGISLATION COMMITTEE: Office of Film and Literature
Classification: Discussion
Date 25 May, 2006
Committee name LEGAL AND CONSTITUTIONAL LEGISLATION COMMITTEE
Program Office of Film and Literature Classification
Page 3
Proof Yes
Database Estimates Comm.
Source Senate
Talk CHAIR—Mr Clark, thank you very much
for your patience today.
Talk Senator KIRK—I want to ask some
questions following up from questions that we asked the department
yesterday about the absorption of OFLC into the department. I am
interested in what effect the closure of the office will have on the
day-to-day functions of the director of the classification board.
Talk Mr Clark—I cannot answer the details
of that, because we are in negotiation with the department about the
operational issues, but, as I perceive it, there will not be any
particular change in the way in which the classification board, and for
that matter the review board, conduct their business and make their
decisions.
Talk Senator KIRK—So you are in the
process of negotiation at present with the department?
Talk Mr Clark—That is correct.
Talk Senator KIRK—How far down the track
are you? What sorts of matters are you discussing?
Talk Mr Clark—We are talking about
governance models and what it might look like as people are absorbed into
the department. We do not have a final decision yet but I would hope that
some time next week we may come to something that we can work with.
Talk Senator KIRK—I understand that this
is meant to take place from 1 July. Is that correct? It is not a very long
time frame.
Talk Mr Clark—From 1 July is the policy
function, until 1 July next year when it is the final integration. I hope
it would happen well before that, but that is the final date.
Talk Senator KIRK—Under current
arrangements, when you are giving policy advice, do you always produce a
joint advice with the Attorney-General’s Department?
Talk Mr Clark—We produce a joint advice
with the department, yes. It has been a joint operation with a memorandum
of understanding in relation to the provision of that advice.
Talk Senator KIRK—So you have not actually
provided separate advice as a matter of course?
Talk Mr Clark—No, we have not.
Talk Senator KIRK—In that sense, the shift
of policy function is not going to make a very big difference. Is that
correct?
Talk Mr Clark—It will not make a radical
difference. Certainly, the intent is that there is a reference back to the
practical application of policy decisions in relation to board decision
making, and that is the critical thing that we are looking at now.
Talk Senator KIRK—Does your office
currently provide policy advice directly to the council of ministers?
Talk Mr Clark—No. Papers are developed by
the SCAG censorship secretariat but, once again, that is jointly prepared
with the department.
Talk Senator KIRK—From 1 July 2007, the
secretariat functions are going to reside in the Attorney-General’s
Department, as I understand it.
Talk Mr Clark—The secretariat officers
will be departmental officers reporting to the department, but they will
be located in Sydney.
Talk Senator KIRK—Shifting from Canberra?
Talk Mr Clark—No. The secretariat function
will be formed out of the existing officers in Sydney. The people who
receive and process applications will continue to do that work after the
new arrangements are in place and will remain in Sydney co-located with
the board.
Talk Senator KIRK—Okay. So there will not
be a significant change in that respect?
Talk Mr Clark—I expect not.
Talk Senator KIRK—So what is going to
change? I keep going through all these matters which appear not to be
changing.
Talk Mr Clark—I hope very little change,
in the sense that I won’t have some of the day-to-day chief executive
functions that I currently perform. They will be performed by departmental
officers. But, apart from that, getting on with the business of making
classification decisions will be much as it is.
Talk Senator KIRK—Is it proposed that
there will be any staff redundancies as a consequence of the change?
Talk Mr Clark—It is not proposed to have
staff redundancies. It is possible that a small number of people who may
be offered a position in Canberra who may not wish to take that up might
wish to take some sort of departure package. But, at this stage, that is
not seen as being anything of a major part and certainly not one targeted
at people losing jobs.
Talk Senator KIRK—How many jobs will be
shifting to Canberra from Sydney?
Talk Mr Clark—We have not made any final
decision on that yet. That is part of the discussions we are having.
Talk Senator KIRK—It is all part of the
negotiations.
Talk Mr Clark—Yes.
Talk Senator KIRK—It sounds like it is
something I need to ask more detail about next time round, when you have
completed the negotiations.
Talk Mr Clark—I am very happy to provide
the detail when we have it.
Talk Senator KIRK—Perhaps it would be
helpful, because you said it would be in the next month or so, didn’t
you?
Talk Mr Clark—I expect so, yes.
Talk Senator KIRK—Perhaps you could take
some of these questions that I have raised on notice and answer them for
me.
Talk Mr Clark—I am certainly very happy
to.
Talk Senator KIRK—What involvement did
your office have in the decision to make this change—to absorb the
office into the department?
Talk Mr Clark—That was a decision made by
government, so we were not involved in that decision.
Talk Senator KIRK—Not consulted, not asked
about it?
Talk Mr Clark—No.
Talk Senator KIRK—When did you become
aware of the decision?
Talk Mr Clark—The Attorney-General spoke
to me on 21 February and informed me of the decision. A letter came after
that conversation.
Talk Senator KIRK—You said that was on the
21st.
Talk Mr Clark—On Tuesday the 21st.
Talk Senator KIRK—Then the public
announcement was made on the 24th.
Talk Mr Clark—That is correct.
Talk Senator KIRK—If you had been
consulted, what would you have said?
Talk CHAIR—I think that is asking the
officers to engage in hypotheticals. If someone offers me a million
dollars, what am I going to say?
Talk Senator KIRK—No. It is a matter of
fact.
Talk CHAIR—Unfortunately, that is not the
business of estimates.
Talk Senator KIRK—No. My question was
whether or not these changes are going to impact upon the work. It is not
hypothetical.
Talk CHAIR—No. Your question was, ‘If
you had been, what would you have said?’ That is not a question the
officer can answer. If you would ask a question the officer can answer,
that would be good.
Talk Senator Ellison—It is hypothetical;
it is policy.
Talk Senator KIRK—It is policy, rather
than hypothetical.
Talk CHAIR—It is hypothetical and it is
policy. The minister has confirmed that is the case.
Talk Senator KIRK—I would be happy to
receive the information you give me so I can find out more detail. Thank
you.
Talk Mr Clark—It is a pleasure, Senator.
Talk CHAIR—Thank you. That seems to
conclude the questions. Thank you, Mr Clark, gentlemen.
[9.44 pm]